Activity Points vs. Posting Points

[Lina]

Ker brought up a very valid point: some posters are faster than others and that doesn't make them worse roleplayers. SO, what we were thinking of doing to improve this experience was to change rewarding 10 points for every 100 posts and, instead, do this:

When activity is checked every month, all active characters will automatically be awarded 5 points each.
If a character has posted 50 posts or more that month, they will automatically get 10 points.
If a character has posted 100 posts or more that month, they will automatically get 15 points.
If a character has posted 500 posts or more that month, they will automatically get 40 points.
No requesting needed whatsoever.

This way, points are still awarded for posting, but not as many and everybody gets a chance to buy Wonders and other fun stuff we have planned.

SO. The question is: What do you all think about this?

[bobbomb]

now is this per account getting 50/100/500 posts, or is this by member account and all subaccount under it, (like for me is it just Markus getting 50 posts, or is it for bobbomb/Markus/Natacha getting 50/100/500 posts in total?

[Lina]

QUOTE (bobbomb @ Apr 12 2012, 07:30 PM)

now is this per account getting 50/100/500 posts, or is this by member account and all subaccount under it, (like for me is it just Markus getting 50 posts, or is it for bobbomb/Markus/Natacha getting 50/100/500 posts in total?

Like explained above, each character with post counts over those benchmarks will earn the user that specific number of points.

[Pleti Pie]

How is this tracked? It's easy to just look at the total overall number of posts and keep an eye on how many we've done over however long, but I know I'm gonna get confused/forget about how much I did in a month. Would we have to make a notice like "Wash is at 1336 posts on April 1st!" and then at the end of the month subtract them ourselves? Or is there an easier way to keep note of the posts? There is probably a shortcut I just haven't noticed!

[Ashtonishing!]

You wouldn't have to worry about it-- it'd be automatically rewarded at the end of each month like the activity points. So however it works, that's staff headache

[Ker]

I think the only fair way to do it would be to award on the basis of word count, but good lord, the one board I saw that did that... it was a frickton of work for everyone involved and that's no fun. And a board's supposed to be fun.

I like the old system better. If we moved to this new system I'd never get any points for posting at all, ever. And well, even if that's just my own personal problem, I'd still say that wasn't fair. Joseph still hasn't gotten 50 post total.

[Lina]

How about... for every 10 finished threads, you get 10 points. Request-able. That seems fairer.
Threads left hanging for... say, two months? are valid for requesting points.

[Lina]

Or tone down points for 100 posts. Maybe give out 2 points for 50 posts instead of 10 for 100.
Crank up number of points for other things, such as starting/answering to open threads and the like.

[Jeff]

Yeah I like that idea (the one presented in the posts just before this one). Because the main issue we're dealing with here is the fact that there is a greater emphasis placed on number posts than... well pretty much everything else.

I think number of completed threads makes a lot more sense because it is much more accessible and attainable for everyone.

That's not to say that we should get rid of points for number of posts, just... less, I suppose. Or just more of everything else.

Actually I like the idea of having more points for everything else anyway.

[Ashtonishing!]

I would agree with the last couple of ideas -- maybe put less point emphasis on number of posts, and more point emphasis on things like starting open threads and responding to open threads, or starting a thread for whoever's the spotlight, etc.

And I definitely think it might be more fair to do it on completed threads, since a lot of us machine-gun posters end up having muuuuch longer threads in general that last forever.

[Green Magus]

I think that if you're overhauling the point system, you should consider resetting points for everyone. Because if you make it harder to get points then the people who have been here for longer will have large numbers of points that the new people would have a lot of trouble acheiving. Also, as for me, I would probably have a hard time getting so much as ten points from posts, since I have to accumulate fifty posts over a single month. Here's what I suggest instead:

For each post an account makes, have a script that adds something like .3 to a hidden(?) number. At the end of the month, round that down and give them that many points. You'd adjust the fraction as needed, of course.

[Ashtonishing!]

I don't know about resetting points unless all the members agree to relinquish theirs -- I don't think it will be harder to get points with this way, but easier, because we'll be taking the point focus off of post count a little bit.


EDIT: Also I don't know much about coding, so I'll leave the script idea to Lina's expertise xD

[Lina]

QUOTE (Green Magus @ Apr 13 2012, 05:36 PM)

I think that if you're overhauling the point system, you should consider resetting points for everyone. Because if you make it harder to get points then the people who have been here for longer will have large numbers of points that the new people would have a lot of trouble acheiving. Also, as for me, I would probably have a hard time getting so much as ten points from posts, since I have to accumulate fifty posts over a single month. Here's what I suggest instead: For each post an account makes, have a script that adds something like .3 to a hidden(?) number. At the end of the month, round that down and give them that many points. You'd adjust the fraction as needed, of course.

But that's still put emphasis on how many posts you're making.

I don't think it's unfair to new members either. This is an RP, not a real-world situation where you're giving people money. The things you can buy here don't even affect other people, so no one's really at a disadvantage.

[Jeff]

Well -- with that thinking -- wouldn't the points have to be reset every time we got a new member? I think resetting the points might actually make it more confusing, seeing as how people have actually used their points already and... well, wouldn't they have to give up their new Wonders or whatever?

I think it's easier to just leave it the way it is, and with the emphasis off of post count then it's a lot easier for new members to catch up. Right?

[Ashtonishing!]

I agree with Jeff -- I think we should put the emphasis on some other stuff that's more about community building. And I still really like the idea of getting points per completed thread.

[Dun]

Melodramatic statement: If I ever see a reward for the number of words written in posts around here, I will scream and run away, never to be seen again. Then I would stop writing with Lina and Ash forever, no matter how obsessed with their writing I am.

Back to semi-seriousness:

I'm for creating more opportunities to earn points outside reaching post count benchmarks. I quite like the idea of getting points for completing threads, as that also focuses on rewarding players for advancing the story, but it also rewards players for finishing what they start and contributing whole scenes rather than fragments of them. I'll be thinking on new ways to earn points and new ways to weight the points to make sure that there are bigger incentives for things that would be especially beneficial to the game (ie. writing threads with new players).

I don't really think resetting points would be the best thing to do. I'd hate for people to lose what they've already worked toward earning, even though I understand the idea of trying to level the playing field a little since it may become harder for new players to earn a lot of points with any changes that are made. It just seems like a lot of work for something that doesn't have much of an impact on the game, and potentially taking away from people who've already done a lot and earned a bunch of points makes it seem like the cons would outweigh the pros. I'm more than okay with players who have been in the game longer having more points (it only makes sense), even if it would be tough for new players to catch up to a couple of them, despite doing a lot in the game (because point rewards for some things will have changed).

Just want to also draw attention to the fact that one big reason for having these points is to reward people for making contributions to the game. So, I think (it just seems to me that it needs to be mentioned, though I know it isn't hard to comprehend):

• It's great to be able to reward people who are having their characters do a lot in the game, even if they don't get a ton of points just for making a bunch of posts. . . so I don't think it's a problem at all to award points for posting. Posting frequently means advancing the action frequently (regardless of how long or short those posts are). That's a great contribution, though it doesn't cheapen the contributions of anyone who might post less frequently in general. Thankfully, we have opportunities to earn points for people who contribute in other great ways, even if they can't or don't want to post as often as some others.
• I don't think any of us would advocate making a huge division between haves and have nots as far as points go. This is supposed to be a fun incentive for making the game better, after all . . . but that's why the things that can be purchased with points don't put any players with fewer points at a significant disadvantage. Hopefully they're still a bit fun for you guys, anyway!
• I think I can speak for Ash and Lina and myself when I say that we'll be happy to make changes to the points system here and there to iron out kinks and better reflect the needs of the game (why not adjust now and then to encourage everyone to focus on what the game needs at any given moment?), but it would be a shame to over-complicate things or take away what little reward there is for people who try to participate in the process of getting points by doing things to make the game better. So. . . I like to offer some small prize that's useful to people who do a lot for the game, but not if that means we all start focusing more on obtaining points than on playing.

[Ashtonishing!]

Dun is pretty much my mouthpiece forever.

I think we have a pretty good idea of where we want things to go from this point forward... and I think that involves taking the heavy emphasis off points and more on other things. But it's always a work in progress. If the new way doesn't work, it can always change again. Things will always change for the better, I hope.

[Lina]

OK, this thread's gonna be closed by the end of today. So if anyone has more things to add, we'd love to hear them before making a final decision!

[kid]

I'm down with the original idea--mostly because it's simple and I'm simple-minded XDDD.